((OOC--Bit of RP Venting))

Oct
17

I'm sure that, recently, I read someone here complaining about the lack of spontaneous RPing in New Babbage--that it was hard to be able to find some while, for instance, walking the streets of the city. (I'd *swear* I read that, though I can't seem to find the original post.)

Well. We gave you the opportunity at the Salon. And frankly, the ball was dropped. There's *so* much more that could have happened, if folks had truly gotten into the spirit of it. Instead, most of what was said was snarky and/or completely off-topic comments. There was just nothing to work with--and so it was cut short.

And I have to say, I really feel for Dr. Obolensky's typist. It can't be easy--and I'm sure it can't be *fun*--to RP a villain if no one takes it *seriously.* Bookworm's been learning to stand up to him, but it's been a *sloooow* process--and that's where the fun's been.

We can't all be heroes and heroines all the time. We can't all be fearless all the time. Find the weaknesses and flaws in your character, and expose them. Let yourself actually be afraid of someone or something, and see where it takes you.

And for pity's sake, give our resident villain a break! Work *with* him in an RP some time, and find out how fun it can be.

113 comments

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Sun, 17 October - 5:56 pm SLT

Ah gave Doc O some raspberries an' said ah'd rather kiss a wiggyfish dan give him a hug, does dat count?

Seriously - I tp'd in after Doc O arrived and wasn't sure what was going on besides he said girls couldn't be heroines and Breezy tried to get the urchins to hug him.

LoPxie Artful's picture
Reply by LoPxie Artful | Sun, 17 October - 6:05 pm SLT

one aspires to be a heroine, rather... and hugs may be an excellent way to defeat baddies!

Cyan Rayna's picture
Reply by Cyan Rayna | Sun, 17 October - 6:06 pm SLT

Or just make them more angry. It seems when a baddie alredy doesn't like urchins that hugs from them don't make them think any better of them ;3

Cyan Rayna's picture
Reply by Cyan Rayna | Sun, 17 October - 5:59 pm SLT

I stomped on his feet last RP (after he revealed his secret love for a certain damsel ;3 ).

I think I just need to get on more often than I have been and participate more.

LoPxie Artful's picture
Reply by LoPxie Artful | Sun, 17 October - 6:02 pm SLT

it was awfully good fun when gilhooly and i left dr obolenski some soporific cake... tho' i should be rather too frightened, i think, to stand and argue with him... ((and his typist was really nice when i im'd him after))

Doctor Obolensky's picture
Reply by Doctor Obolensky | Sun, 17 October - 6:28 pm SLT

Here here...folks, for me to play a credible villain, you have to treat me like one.   I love the fact that cooperation is required for RP here...but I literally can't kill dozens or people or flatten half the city (as much as I may want to sometimes).   Therefore, my menace is all in attitude, and how people react to me.   Treat me as if I'm not a threat, and I won't be.   And I'll quit *trying* to be a threat.

I had hoped for some bit of dialog where I could argue with the audience about the worthiness of female heroes, at a minimum, and maybe some shaken fists and shouts of "you cad!" and so on.  Instead, I either get made fun of, sneered at, or threatened with hugs.

People have asked where I've been, and why I haven't done much since last year, when with the cooperation of a *whole* lot of people, I had a lovely time "taking over".   Well, this is part of your answer.  I don't know if the city has become simply bored with me, or jaded over time, but obviously, things have changed.

 

Cadmus Lupindo's picture
Reply by Cadmus Lupindo | Sun, 17 October - 7:35 pm SLT

I had a good time with Obolenskidonia. Thank you for the opportunity to work with you Doctor. I wish I knew how to improve the RP villains issue myself.

Victor1st Mornington's picture
Reply by Victor1st Mornington | Sun, 17 October - 6:35 pm SLT

To be honest book i didnt even know Doc was gonna show up until someone mentioned it in the group chat, when i went over i seen steel bars covering the entrances and though "ohhhhh!".

Plus, latley i've been kind of shying away from any sort of RP in the city as a whole, and spending more time either in my station or locked away in my lab in clockhaven.  Things have changed in Babbage over the past year and a half since i first moved into clockhaven.  Gone are the days where folks can sit around in a bar or in ceejay's cafe and just...chat...

It seems that RP in Babbage has went to polar extremes, i didnt even want to do the world zombie day run up but Mr Tenk sort of landed it on my lap during the last town hall meeting.  I've been noticing it in other long term folks who stay in Babbage...they simply either aint around the city and when they are they dont participate in any roleplay.

On one hand theres the long term story lines that go on for months which quite frankly I lost track of weeks ago, then there's the short term ones where i stand a think "wtf was that all about?"

There's also the feeling of cliques starting to form within the city itself.  I noticed it...and a few folks have commented on it as well, most of them former residents of the past year who have gave up their plots and went elsewhere, a few of the hotel's residents who came over and rented in the hotel just to RP basically gave up and moved on.  Hell, i've been accused of being in a "clique" as well, but if folks look closkely at what I actually do in Babbage...youll notice for the most part...i stay away from most gatherings, and if i do appear, its only for a short time.

After a year and a half in New Babbage...i still feel like an outsider...

Mr Tenk's picture
Reply by Mr Tenk | Mon, 18 October - 5:13 am SLT

Babbage has always been cliquey. I don't think there is a way around this, i tried to rp before that whole election thing, and never felt welcome. Most rp is personal, and goes below everyone's radar. That's just the way it works. You keep on keeping on, usualy on your own land, and that's how it works best. Bigger rp --  it gets messy. fast. Weekend events, well announced, like zombiefest, work, because there is a time limit. Loki's stores are highly structured and people have fun with their personal rp while chasing the story line.

Long term plots, well, ok, but the best lesson i ever learned from a street juggler is "no one cares." For every good act, there are a dozen ones (some of them better) that never get seen. Your story is probably for you and your close friends, and if you're lucky, others will get drawn into it too (or in Underby's case, unlucky and too many people will get drawn in). People tend to shy away from groups that are too introverted or are giving off that emo vibe.

I like reading your blogs, some i get, some are completely baffling and i'll have absolutely no idea what you're going on about unless you sit me down and tell me. Some are just emo or have a scary amount of real life oozing out between the lines, but that is the nature of the beast.

 

ok, that's enough harsh words before coffee...

Edward Pearse's picture
Reply by Edward Pearse | Tue, 19 October - 4:43 am SLT

some i get, some are completely baffling

So just like talking to him in person then? :-)

Victor1st Mornington's picture
Reply by Victor1st Mornington | Tue, 19 October - 7:43 am SLT

Oi!

Im perfectly understandable in person i'll have you know :p

Ariana Farstrider's picture
Reply by Ariana Farstrider | Sun, 17 October - 7:03 pm SLT

I have noticed that RP doesn't really go anywhere in New Babbage, it starts and doesn't really finish. My RP with Sevastian is mundane every day things. Yes, I wish there could be more.. all of the things that happened with my character only went on between him, me, and a select few of friends. From her accident, to her drug addiction (which no one knew about really) and now her inner turmoils of how she looks. "Time Travel" is a touchy subject with Strider... 

One thing I do -not- like about the role play in New Babbage is that characters cannot have an opinion against something without it reflecting against the mun (typist). That should not happen at all and I lost some friendships because of it. It has also apparently made a bad reputation on me and it shouldn't of. I shouldn't have to agree with someone just to be liked, I should be able to have an opinion. I wish we where at the event today, we had woke up late and saw the notice but didn't see it was for today. We would of really gotten into it.

I see people really try to bring role play into New Babbage but its really hard when there are people who don't believe or want certain things in New Babbage and it seriously limits you. I don't feel the whimsy of Steampunk in New Babbage.... lately all it seems like is an industrial victorian city. All whimsy seems to be frowned on and restricted.

However, I don't see me leaving New Babbage anytime soon. As long as I can find some meaningless RP, its better than nothing at all.

Bookworm Hienrichs's picture
Reply by Bookworm Hienrichs | Mon, 18 October - 4:18 pm SLT

I'm curious--what would you describe as whimsy?

Mr Underby's picture
Reply by Mr Underby | Sun, 17 October - 7:27 pm SLT

I will second the concept of playing a villain in Babbage is difficult, its true that precious few people are willing to stoop to being "afraid" of anything in town... especially an urchin (the true reason Underby doesn't associate with them much, most are difficult to RP with, the ones who are fun to deal with I find ways to interact with that Underby might not agree with IC))... 

I also find more and more a level of PC meta-gaming policing the recent RPs in town, without it being overtly stated.  As a result I have been pulling out of RP more and more and simply spending time on my own land.

 

Cadmus Lupindo's picture
Reply by Cadmus Lupindo | Sun, 17 October - 7:43 pm SLT

I third what the Doctor and Mr. Underby said.

I am in the process of working on my building and hope to be able to promote more villainy with it's completion.

Brother Lapis's picture
Reply by Brother Lapis | Mon, 18 October - 4:19 am SLT

Fourth.

You can't have credible villains (or vaguely villainous authority figures) if people won't play along. Snark is a way of saying I don't want to play. It appears to be the people who want roleplay that are the ones doing the hamstringing. 

Sredni Eel's picture
Reply by Sredni Eel | Mon, 18 October - 5:44 am SLT

Well, I tried to demonize you, but it became onerous when nobody actually agreed with me that you're an evil nogoodnik.  I kind of got bored after that, and stopped.

Mr Tenk's picture
Reply by Mr Tenk | Mon, 18 October - 8:57 am SLT

I thought your blog entries were brilliant!

Kaylee Faulkner's picture
Reply by Kaylee Faulkner | Sun, 17 October - 8:17 pm SLT

This is the same reason the martians stopped showing up after only a couple appearances.  Had too many people trying to chase them around or running under the legs and standing there instead of running away.  Its really no fun at all to be a villain or monster if only a few people treat you like something to be afraid of.

Grendel Footman's picture
Reply by Grendel Footman | Sun, 17 October - 9:32 pm SLT

kind of agree a bit with victor and strider, partially why most my RP s usually pretty contained to my land and some close firends as well, though of course if other people get involved (like te SLenderman RP) great, otherwise, I tend to keep it mostly on my land a there seems to be less arguments then, and don't really get as invlved in larger citywide RP much these days.  it has  been  feeling cliquish at times, and as Strider said, your character has an unpopular opinion, it does effect how people see the person running the avatar.  And in some cases he person themselves seems to have to keep their opinons to themselves OOC as well.   

alot of my RP happens around Footman Industries, but my RP group is open membership, and my land is fully free for people to RP in, with the one rule; Don't be a douchebag OOC to each other.

 

And Doc O. and Underby are right as well, its hard to RP a villian, and when people wont even really try to treat them as a threat, it does lose something.  Yes, Dr. O wont really be able to kill you (at least not unless you say 'sure, go ahead' and probably have some way back anyway), but IC, does your character realize that?  if noone's worried about what the villians going to do next, then what's the point in villanry anyway? he may as well hang up his monocle at that point

Bianca Namori's picture
Reply by Bianca Namori (not verified) | Sun, 17 October - 8:42 pm SLT

Well, for starters, I would like to apologize for not being afraid enough. Honestly it wasn't my intentions to not have fun. But even recalling the event, I didn't see one person really react in fear, and I was amongst them. Not because I have a hero complex mind you, it's just my characters narcisitic nature. Yet, it wasn't my typists intentions to make anyone feel bad and I even tipped Dr. O after for his performance.

But as it's been mentioned extensively in this post, it's hard to be bad in Babbage. If you haven't been here a certain number of days, then you're automatically presumed an alt, if you aren't with the "in" crowed on certain times, events, groups, etc, then you just "don't care" and it's rather disheartening when you feel like you might have something going and it's just a flop because it isn't "The way we roll around here."

What is PC or rather RPC here in New Babbage is clear some days...and as foggy as the skies above.

Yet I'm rather new in town, and I'm not going to pretend I'm going to be liked by everyone or be everyones friend, but at the end of the day it is never, EVER my intentions to bring the same disheartening feeling I've felt on ANYONE, and for that I hope my apology can be accepted.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bianca

LoPxie Artful's picture
Reply by LoPxie Artful | Sun, 17 October - 9:47 pm SLT

(( i know villainy is hard in babbage because of what i've seen, and because in my own way i sort of live in the grey area myself :)

lupindo and obolenski are classic comic book, silent movie villains... their reason for existing is to hatch fearful diabolical schemes... and the fun is in playing along with that, and being afraid of them because, well, they're baddies... at least i think that's how it goes, because i haven't had much chance to find out yet... 0.o 

mr and mrs underby are more of a psychological threat :)  ...they have background stories which explain their villainous natures, and their characters have depth and can change and grow according to whatever situation they are in... i love playing off that, because for me the best storytelling reflects what is going on in a character's head... and my character is likely to change mercurially at any moment as well, because i'm fascinated by the grey area of what is right and wrong, based on what a character is living through.  and the fun there for me has been adding to their story by bouncing off their ideas in a reactive, emotional, childlike, slightly mad way...

but! i'm obviously not a rp'er who plans things, and i'm really aware now that my insane improvising could spoil something a roleplayer has been setting up for months.  i know, because i've done that accidentally, and i feel really sad about it.  i've been noticing people's reactions lately and stepping back, a lot.  i don't want the villainy to stop, ever

Ariana Farstrider's picture
Reply by Ariana Farstrider | Sun, 17 October - 10:27 pm SLT

I for one love random things that happen spur of the moment. As for the martians.. I wondered why they poofed. Strider isn't one to get scared, she didn't stand around either tho and moved away from the lazers and such. If struck, I would of actually RPed the injury (tho my tail did get singed!!!!). However, there was one time I was on an alt when they came and I ran for my bloody life LOL

I love plots that happen, and know there was suppose to be a really good Rp coming around but hadn't heard much more of it probably because the others have failed. I have noticed a huge calm in all the New Babbage news which had kept us here while we where only visiting. I tried to get deeper into the Zombie thing but had my nose buried into work and didn't realize it was happening.

I hope villians don't give up and perhaps the true Rpers ignore those who are not... and continue to role play as their character would respond... and that the villians respond to those who are truely role playing..

Those who don't role play... let us have our fun... you have the option to ignore it, don't ruin our fun and ruin the plot.

 

Role play is hard to come by in Second Life and when ever I do find it, I cling to it dearly. I want more RP that makes Steampunk what its suppose to be... not what its turning out to be In New Babbage.

Victor1st Mornington's picture
Reply by Victor1st Mornington | Sun, 17 October - 10:40 pm SLT

As for the villian side...

The first meeting of the High Council of Timelords (of which im the former interim president of and have a seat in) and The Daleks took place last weekend.

The meeting was simple, they asked questions, we asked questions...at the end of the Timelords set of questions (and the end of the set peice) i asked the simple question....

..."Who are the superior beings?"

To which they all shouted back "WE ARE!".

That single question has now confirmed to the High Council and the 1000+ memberbase of that particular RP group and to the 500+ Dalek group that war...is now inevitable.

I play the role of the "villian" if you will in timelord circles...now this villian has literally "pushed the button"...the ramifications of this will cause power shifts and will have ramifications to the way I interact with the other timelords...and that change will be permanent.

For a villian in a living city though...it's much much harder, any city wide effects have to basically go through a "soft reset" at the end (like the World Zombie Day pathogen) and after a while...folks simply get it into their head that villians in a city aint really a threat cause to paraphrase "nothing can actually go wrong".

I think that does lead to some folks being jaded, its the kind of thing I aint used to playing a darker character outside of New Babbage, objectivley and decisivley experimenting on living daleks, running the Celestial Intervention Agency behind the backs of half of the members of the High Council...basically...being nasty.

Roleplaying a villian in a city where the timestream is "fixed" is a totally different ball game, and something I just cant do cause theres no lasting repercussions, it's why i tip my hat to folks like Doctor Obolensky and Mr Underby for filling that certain role which is a very hard role to fill...

Jonathon Spires's picture
Reply by Jonathon Spires | Mon, 18 October - 8:25 am SLT

I don't think it's cliques as much as it might be thought, as much as it's just time zones. People tend to clump into various times they happen to be on, and those will tend to be on group chat perhaps.

 

I do think there is a basic deviation between what I would think of as three groups, perhaps: Vernians (George Pal fans, Verne and Wells folks, Difference Engien types),  Time Lords, and the Anime lovers.

Before someone gets angry and says "My AV is an undead unkillable 5 year old butterfly furry-faerie with gigantic eyeballs who is steeped deeply in the tradition of H.G. Wells, and has a clockspring for kidneys!" please realize I don't think these differences are compelete or define everyone, but I think there may be enough of a split that some times rp is just not going to really work with all parties concerned.

Edward Pearse's picture
Reply by Edward Pearse | Tue, 19 October - 4:52 am SLT

As one of the less than half dozen people in my timezone in Babbage (I think there are currently three) I can certainly say that time zones can be an issue. I know very few of the UK crowd personally as I'm usually asleep during their evening.  My midday is SLT evening.

That said, Victor keeps weird hours anyway.

I agree with Tenk that Babbage can be cliquey. Not in a high school "you are not one of the cool kids" sort of thing (though that happens on occasion) but moreso that you get to know some people, they may view things differently to you so you tend to hang out with others more inclined to your own view. Happens quite frequently with those who get out of the house in RL too I'm told.

I'm probably more notorious for wanting polished brass and scrubbed bricks than I would be if I'd just gone with the flow :-)

Avariel Falcon's picture
Reply by Avariel Falcon | Sun, 17 October - 11:10 pm SLT

I was afraid when Dr O sent his vampire bees to drink all my oil and shut the power station down. But I don't think anyone noticed...

Grendel Footman's picture
Reply by Grendel Footman | Mon, 18 October - 4:19 am SLT

I noticed, there were bees showing up draining oil from my machines too 

(lately also, my RL has been very busy with alot of ups and downs, so I could be missing a good amount also, like world zombie day)

 

As far as fearless,  have to admit I don't really tend to be 'afraid' IC, Grendel is basically already dead (which is why so many of his experiments gleefully disreguard things like safety procedures, people's health and well being, property damage) and has seen plenty of really mind shattering things in his life as well.

but he can be inconveinianced by things , have plans totally ruined, have new obstacles to his goals, lke last years occupation, and the oil bees more recent (and all the people trying to administer the cure to Victor's zombie pathogen to me righ now)

Cyan Rayna's picture
Reply by Cyan Rayna | Mon, 18 October - 12:56 am SLT

I think another thing that has probably upset the balance a bit recently is that a lot of the RPers in Babbage lately are fearless.

I know as an urchin to really survive you sometimes have to be fearless but on the same end smart. I have done things more of a fearless and curious character which sometimes gets me in trouble (and sometimes wish it would get me in trouble as it would be fun I think). But when you have a city full of people who have no fear then having a villain is very hard to play. Since no one would fear the villain then no one actually takes the villain seriously, or if they do it's more in an aggressive stance against the villain.

In truth though whenever I have come online I try to RP when I can and be conversive in general. Unfortunately being conversive tends to take things out of RP mode sometimes.

Anyway if I am around I am always up for RPing (maybe let me know in private chat and I will keep OOC chatter to a min then too).

MichaelD Mannonen's picture
Reply by MichaelD Mannonen | Mon, 18 October - 3:52 am SLT

Let us take a look at the other side of the same coin....

 

During the last martian outbreak, some might remember some idiot (ME) wearing a jetpack buzzing and straiffing the martian war machine firing a ray gun at it. I was not doing this because i was fearless, i was doing it because i remembered the Dr O takeover, and was scared to death that the martians might do the same, or worse. The difference is that i did not allow the fear to incapacitate me, and instead it motivated me to take action, even though my attacks on the martians were apparently ineffective.

 

My question, if i am not "briefed" on what the plot is supposed to be, and how long it is supposed to take, how am i to know what the "proper" course of action is to be? All i can do is act as i think my character would. In the martian example, i did what i thought was most appropriate, and since the martian did not act damaged, i felt my attacks ineffective, and was waiting for more attacks, but they never came.

 

just my 2 cents.

Kaylee Faulkner's picture
Reply by Kaylee Faulkner | Mon, 18 October - 8:18 am SLT

The people who ran away or tried to fight back were great.  Thats why they kept blaring their noises at you and trying to laser you out of the sky.  I was really looking forward to people trying to kill them (and at some point succeeding) as things went on.  A couple fearless people are not an issue at all.  It was the ones who acted like they were nothing to worry about that made the whole thing no fun.

MichaelD Mannonen's picture
Reply by MichaelD Mannonen | Mon, 18 October - 3:28 pm SLT

Unfortunately, you will always have those unconcerned individuals in a "Roleplay Optional" sim. People have the freedom to not paticipate if they choose not to.

So, in those cases, you need to "play" to the people who ARE willing to play along. It would be MORE fun if the entire population participated, but again, in a sim where RP is optional, you have to expect a certain number of individuals to hang back.

If it's a case where someone is participating, but not reacting appropriately, well, i think that might be an issue worthy of more discussion. RP in new babbage is different than any other RP i have ever done; i am still trying to get the hang of it, and no doubt there are other people new here that might also be wondering what the appropriate responce should be.

Mr Tenk's picture
Reply by Mr Tenk | Mon, 18 October - 5:20 am SLT

smart kid here.

the urchins have seemed more fearless than the others in the past, and they probably should be, but not to the point of being stupid. They still knew when to run.

 

Loki Eliot's picture
Reply by Loki Eliot | Wed, 9 November - 11:11 am SLT

I think the general Babbage public would be horrified to know the truth about Urchins

Mr Tenk's picture
Reply by Mr Tenk | Wed, 9 November - 11:18 am SLT

there's a reason i don't have a kid alt. *grins*

you guys are scary.

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Mon, 18 October - 3:07 am SLT

Urchins couldn't survive on the streets if they were easily frightened.  I also see it as the arrogance of youth.  It hasn't really occured to us that we can die because that only happens to old people.  Although that's not exactly realistc for the time period we live in.  Think about it - in Victorian times urchins were used to do dangerous jobs, we lived in substandard housing.  If this was "real" we'd be seeing at least two or three of our friends die every year.  Children died in Victorian times. 

I do do things like bait Rustybones then go hide behind Star, Breezy, or Miz Book then boldly proclaim, "Imma not scared of you!"  Of course, I'm not scared because I'm hiding behind a trusted adult that I know will protect me.

Something that happened in Steelhead RP that hasn't ever happened in Babbage that I know of - is that an NPC urchn died.  He was kiled by the monster called Steel Head just a few feet outside the protective boundaries of whatever surrounds Mara's property.  I think that badly upset and frightened the scamps ICly - the thought that one of us could die.

Cyan Rayna's picture
Reply by Cyan Rayna | Mon, 18 October - 3:10 am SLT

((We should really get an urchin gathering together to discuss Skylers death since it seemed to be a murder... maybe try and get some sort of scooby dooing ;3 but yeah last time I was on and found out about it my character was rather upset about it))

Tepic Harlequin's picture
Reply by Tepic Harlequin | Mon, 18 October - 9:17 am SLT

That's a good idea, Cyan, i really want to find out more about what happened to Skyler, but can't seem to piece it together!  I know Skyler was murdered, and found in a sewer, but otherwise it seems to have died down, except his ghost is trying to get back!  As Tepic spends some time down by the graveyard, playing for the ghosts, he has seen Skyler's ghost, and even leaves offerings of rum for him.....

I guess that is the sort of rp i tend to get involved in, the sort of small acts Tepic might do (though i had fun as a zombie in the wider rp!).  Both Dr O. and Mr Underby are scary, and i would tend to avoid them as dangerous, Dr. O found me exploring his lab once, and was VERY scary!  Some time ago Gilhooly rped having a broken leg from falling off a roof, and maybe this sort of injury should be more common in urchins, particularly when rping with dangerous people.  Something to think about...

Skyler Gant's picture
Reply by Skyler Gant | Tue, 19 October - 2:16 pm SLT

That does sound like a good idea, find out who murdered Skyler. I intend, I hope, to have a series of clues leading up to the name of the guy, full name rather, that did this.  Maybe sometime soon before Halloween we can. And I do try remaining in character and having my urchin characters, save for Eamon the Merboy, be afraid of the Baddies that lurk in Babbage. Eamon's more of the type to find them annoying, rather than scary. But yeah, having your Urchin not afraid of someone who could obviously hurt them seems rather dumb to me. I mean, it's cool if you want him/her to be brave but that, to me, would just make them foolish.

Sheryl Skytower's picture
Reply by Sheryl Skytower | Tue, 19 October - 4:07 pm SLT

I wantz my 'lil buddy back!

:(

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Mon, 18 October - 3:20 am SLT

We can meet up at Zaidaville since we don't currently seem to have any official hideout in Babbage.

Mara Razor's picture
Reply by Mara Razor | Mon, 18 October - 5:02 am SLT

I'd let you kidnap me again, Doc O, it was a lot of fun the first time.  But, I live in Steelhead.  Sorry.

And as far as I can tell the only thing about Babbage other sims seem to really envy is the urchins.  If they're so hard to RP with, then why is that?

 

Doctor Obolensky's picture
Reply by Doctor Obolensky | Mon, 18 October - 5:18 am SLT

"And as far as I can tell the only thing about Babbage other sims seem to
really envy is the urchins.  If they're so hard to RP with, then why is
that?"

The urchins are not hard to RP with, as long as your character is friendly with them.   If you're the bad guy in the scene, they *can* be difficult to work with sometimes.   Not always, mind you, Doc O has had some great interactions with them.

But trying to menace them, can at times be difficult, because (as mentioned above), they often seem far more fearless than you'd expect.

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Mon, 18 October - 10:31 am SLT

Dat because urchins are de awesomesauce!

Doctor Obolensky's picture
Reply by Doctor Obolensky | Mon, 18 October - 5:08 am SLT

You don't have to be *scared* of the villain....but you *do* have to treat them as a credible threat.

Villain: "I've released the deadly poison gas, you'll all be dead in an hour without the antidote only I know how to make!"

Victim 1: "Awww...who needs a hug?"

Victim 2: "Oh, I'll just whip up a cure myself."

 

Mara Razor's picture
Reply by Mara Razor | Mon, 18 October - 5:12 am SLT

I don't know why but the "Awww... who needs a hug?" made me laugh.

Doctor Obolensky's picture
Reply by Doctor Obolensky | Mon, 18 October - 5:36 am SLT

It *is* funny.   But that sort of thing crushes the RP instantly.

Mara Razor's picture
Reply by Mara Razor | Mon, 18 October - 7:06 am SLT

I don't know - is it somebody's way of saying, "I don't feel like RPing right now?"  I wasn't at the Salon yesterday, but I think Star may be onto something about what went wrong.  People thought they were OOC.

And I agree about the don't have to be afraid.  It would probably be more in keeping with Mara's character to whip out her boning knife, hold it to your throat, and say, "Well, if I'm going to die, you're coming with me."  Though, if any of the scamps were around she might be more inclined to fear for them, and try to negotiate for their sake.

Mr Tenk's picture
Reply by Mr Tenk | Mon, 18 October - 1:35 pm SLT

It would probably be more in keeping with Mara's character to whip out
her boning knife, hold it to your throat, and say, "Well, if I'm going
to die, you're coming with me."

Ummm, Mara? Do me a favor and get someone to explain why this is could be a bad rp response.

Indiana Jones did violate the "hero code" when he shot that swordsman in the middle of his monologue, and we had to wait for the next movie to see that fight. Fun? No. Godmodding? Sort of. Now if he had used that time to signal to his sidekick to go set up the fall... totally in code!

Jimmy Branagh's picture
Reply by Jimmy Branagh | Mon, 18 October - 5:25 am SLT

I think RP in Babbage, particularly among those of us who have been here forever, often becomes so intertwined with our "everyday" SL selves that it becomes difficult to make the sudden switch when opportunity knocks, resulting in some rather unrealistic reactions to events.

The point about the urchins is well made.  I know Urchin Jim over the years has come to wear an imaginary Mighty Mouse uniform, afraid of nothing and responding as an adult in dangerous situations where a child, even a rough and tough one, would be more likely to exit stage left.  Or right.

Anyway, something to think about.  Conflict is king, and we would be far less a place without our resident villians.  I shall endeavor to persevere and keep my responses honest to the character, and not impulsive, and give them something to play against.

 

 

 

Mara Razor's picture
Reply by Mara Razor | Mon, 18 October - 6:15 am SLT

See?  I always attribute that not knowing when to run away thing in the urchins to the fact that so many of them are drunk so much of the time.  Drunks are often incredibly brave.

 

 

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Mon, 18 October - 10:37 am SLT

Kids in general tend to be very brave.  I just saw a four year old take a flying leap off a dresser, land on a plastic/rubber pony, and bounce it into another room.  It never once crossed that kid's mind that she might get hurt.  Every adult in the room got some bumps and bruises diving to catch her...

Like I said, I'm very brave when firing cherry bombs from my sling shot, hiding behind Elleon, Breezy, Star, Book, etc - or when I'm in Steelhead behind Mara, Lunar, or in Miz Tensai's lap - or when I'm hiding out at the mill.  But, the rest of the time I'm usually the first to run for it.  I also get frightened and whine when Star tells me ghost stories before bed.

Mr Underby's picture
Reply by Mr Underby | Mon, 18 October - 11:03 am SLT

Jumping off a dresser is not the same thing as dealing with someone.  Kids are rarely fearless and rarely brave, look no further than Santa's lap in your nearest mall in a couple on months.  Children are routinely frightened by clowns and puppets.  Bravery is not their strong suit.

Granted, to be a street kid takes a different type of mentality, but lets be honest... if Babbage was a real city, and if there were as many villains running around as there are, these urchins without fear would very much be a thing of the past.  The smart kids would probably not even been seen.  Of course, that's not very enjoyable to RP, but then again neither is dealing with the fearless urchins.

And cliques don't bother me in the least.  People tend to gravitate toward what they like, and avoid what they don't like, it's the old lizard brain, or perhaps the Marketplace of Ideas, but if you get more than two people together you will probably find cliques.  There is no way to regulate that, and if there were I wouldn't participate anyway.  You can't force someone to like you, and they can't force you to like them.  That's life.

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Mon, 18 October - 11:59 am SLT

That may be true of very young children (under 5) but I think Zaida at age 7 or 8 is one of the youngest of not the youngest urchin in Babbage.  Most of them seem to be in the 12-13 and maybe even 14 year old age range, and I could write a book on the stupid bravado of adolescent males having recently been in possession of two of them.

Icly: Zaida doesn't know how old she is.  She says she's 12 because that's how old Jimmy and Myrtil are.  She looks 7 or 8, and probably acts more like 6 because it's normal for traumatized children to regress a little and a lot of Zaida's behaviors and mannerisms are based on a six year old.

Edward Pearse's picture
Reply by Edward Pearse | Tue, 19 October - 5:01 am SLT

Even the Artful Dodger would run from the police and they were only normal coppers. Underby and Doc O should *really* be treated more as the scary man at the end of the street that you would dare each other just to go up to the mail box. And that's not even needing a change of trousers if he came out the front door!

Yeah kids can be brave. But even in Goonies if the kids had had the opportunity to get away from the Fratellis they would have taken it. They even tried to! Hunt up a copy of Monster Squad. Sure the "Scary German Guy" turns out to be nice but they were still shit scared of him beforehand.

Stargirl Macbain's picture
Reply by Stargirl Macbain | Mon, 18 October - 5:31 am SLT

Well, since I wasn't at the event itself I cannot attest as to the reactions of everyone.  What I can say is this is reminding me of something that happened some time ago in the city (someone else who remembers this please chime in?).  I want to say it was a ball, or something similar, an event which we are all generally expecting to be all OOC except for individual interactions, when something large appeared on the scene and took everyone by surprise.  Most of us reacted to it as if it were a stage show, we were waiting for the hero to appear and have a dialogue with the villain.  Afterwords there was a lot of misunderstanding and hurt feelings.  I hate to admit it here, but I will say that if I had been at the Aether Salon, I probably would have reacted like a crowd member vs. a role player.  I would have snarked at the stage, because if you are at a show and a villain shows up that's what you do.  

Perhaps I am wrong, maybe I didn't read the thing right, but I don't recall it being listed as an IC event and, given how much flack role players get for bringing their IC to OOC events, I think role players need a little warning if they are going to be expected to actually participate. 

Thus ends my two cents. 

 

Grendel Footman's picture
Reply by Grendel Footman | Mon, 18 October - 4:47 pm SLT

hadn't made it there myself either, but sounds about right on the money

Bookworm Hienrichs's picture
Reply by Bookworm Hienrichs | Mon, 18 October - 5:28 pm SLT

That was the Mystery Ball of last fall, when Miss Mactavish was shot.  I immediately figured it must be an RP thing, and reacted in character--as much as I could between snapping pictures, and mainly just by screaming once. *grin*

 

I dunno--maybe I don't have as much of an issue snapping between IC and OOC as others, since the two characters are so close to each other.  And I don't think I see these events as "stage shows."  To me, they're an integral part of the character of New Babbage.  I, as a character, often mention them in my journal entries.  The music and conversation may be mainly OOC, but if anything outside of that usual stuff happens, I treat it as RP unless and until I'm told, or figure out, otherwise.  I guess I thought other people felt that way, too.

Jonathon Spires's picture
Reply by Jonathon Spires | Mon, 18 October - 6:23 am SLT

Wasn't there but sorry it went down like that. Sometimes it's hard to get everyone on the same script. Myself I've just been too busy to really rp on here or anywhere else, the last few weeks. 

Sheryl Skytower's picture
Reply by Sheryl Skytower | Mon, 18 October - 6:47 am SLT

sorry I missed the Salon - down with sinus headache...

I know I would have probably just scarfed down the cookies and then fainted... although I do remember taking on the Good Doctor once... and being terrified beyond mention afterwards at me bravery...

:D

*hands Book a cookie*

we'll always have the Arms, sweetie...

;)

Mr Tenk's picture
Reply by Mr Tenk | Mon, 18 October - 8:59 am SLT

can i hop in and say how happy i am about how civil this conversation is?

Stargirl Macbain's picture
Reply by Stargirl Macbain | Mon, 18 October - 9:06 am SLT

May I, as a Moderator, second that?  :) 

Grendel Footman's picture
Reply by Grendel Footman | Mon, 18 October - 4:53 pm SLT

I can fix that: 

"@&@^#* YOU AND YOU WITH THE VANILLA @#**&$ ORANGUTAN AND @&#($(4 ON THE @$*#)@ FLAPJAW SAUCE AND @&#$&@(*$^#*@*&#@**#&#* WITH SKITTLES ON THE @*#&*@((#(@8#, YOU #*@(*#) EXCUSE OF A @*@(*(@&$ "

 

there you go, (censored words courtesy of my cat, I learned to type curse words from her runnings across my keys)

Tesla Tripsa's picture
Reply by Tesla Tripsa | Mon, 18 October - 5:04 pm SLT

Your cat has a filthy mouth.  She needs it washed with soap.  Or maybe her paws rather.

Edward Pearse's picture
Reply by Edward Pearse | Tue, 19 October - 5:03 am SLT

Mainlander!

Bianca Namori's picture
Reply by Bianca Namori (not verified) | Wed, 20 October - 9:11 am SLT

*plugs her ears*

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Wed, 20 October - 9:14 am SLT

Imma say a really bad word.  I'm saying it.  Here it comes........... POO!

Bookworm Hienrichs's picture
Reply by Bookworm Hienrichs | Mon, 18 October - 9:01 am SLT

Dagnabbit, there are many responses I'd like to write, but I don't have *time!* *glares at multiple piles of paper on her desk at work*

Breezy Carver's picture
Reply by Breezy Carver | Mon, 18 October - 9:33 am SLT

Well I am not going to play the glad game here ..

tried that with my good friend Doctor O and it doesn't work !!

But I do have some thoughts to share ..

1)  Was this all a waist of the Good Evil Doc O's time and Bookworm and Entire Delightful Salon Staff

No Not by a long shot !! 

Tell YOU why ..

1)  The Scripted  Gates complete with Sounder were  awesome !!

2)  The Doctor's Verbiage Just Brilliant !!

3) Result Key Element of Surprise  off The chain Devinne !! 

 

Trouble is Doc and Book when you are running a  good Role Play in theater

it is not  always up to YOU to decide it if was Great !!

The Audience Decides believe it or not !!

I would classify this as An Unforgettable Salon .. ie Fun !! 

I think when the  notes and words are posted by dear Sera all will see things a bit differently

Could it have been better Sure !!

Where things missed  ?? Yep !!

but all in all it was upbeat  clever entertaining and different !! 

It was Out of the Box !!

People could have paid attention more  but .. we all know that !!

Private ims during good role plays don't  really work .. all have to be in the room so to speak ..

I am going to share a few blogs that have been posted .. on  this salon .. blushes yes one is my own !

 http://rhianonjameson.blogspot.com/

 http://seabreezegal.blogspot.com/

and the amazing don't Lie Photos of Mr PJ Trenton

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/pj_trenton/sets/72157625060914387/

Skyler Gant's picture
Reply by Skyler Gant | Mon, 18 October - 11:35 am SLT

I try not to have my Urchin character(s) Be all brave and fearless, to unrealistic I figure. And the villians are quite fun to RP with, even if it's just having your character run in fear. The one Villian my character Skyler, and Crispin, feared in RP terms was, no doubt, Underby...Skyler, not so much in death as he figures they can't hurt him no more but Crispin...he wants nothing to do with them. To have a character that's a kid be fearless of a person who could, if they felt like it, hurt them seems to me a tad foolish. Like I said though, RPing with a Villian is fun. And Dr. O's Oblonskidonia (Hope I got that right) Was down right fun, and I wish something that fun would happen again soon.

Mr Underby's picture
Reply by Mr Underby | Mon, 18 October - 11:59 am SLT

Just read the transcript: painful.  No wonder you were both angry about how it turned out.

Jasper Kiergarten's picture
Reply by Jasper Kiergarten | Mon, 18 October - 12:16 pm SLT

 When I first saw this topic, my heart sank. I had come away from it, yesterday, feeling a little unsure of the results, but was reassured by the fact that everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves. I reported to Miss Viv (who had several RL issues to tackle this weekend, and just couldn't be there) that it had some bumps, but otherwise went over well. And now I see that I was wrong. The idea that we might have failed in her absence, and also failed the speaker(s) and guests hurts.

 However, I must thank Breezy for her post, those blog entries and PJ's fine photos. Breezy, your post changed the entire direction I was planning to take on my response
to all of this. Thank you for the perspective focus!

Now, I speak only for myself, and not for the rest of the Salon team, but I am very sorry if anyone came away from the event with bad feelings. I certainly felt awkward and uncertain how to push it along, as it was meant to be very spontaneous, and that isn't really something I do.  I wrote it off to my own
innability to improvise in an RP setting, and my complete lack of any
decernable skill for spontaneity that isn't produced through a musical
instrument. I don't really much care for RP in general, but I do find Doc O's outings to be particularly entertaining to watch, and even partake in now and again, and I was really looking forward to seeing how this was going to pan out.

 Things certainly didn't work out as we had hoped,  and perhaps the
crowd reaction wasn't what we were expecting, but everyone seemed to be
having fun.  I came away thinking that there was certainly room for the event to continue in some manner here (don't ask me what or how, or even why, I just thought it might).  And so, to that I have to aggree with Breezy 100% (I was thinking, Breezy, the entire time that, because of where you were standing, you had a big surprise waiting right behind you ;) ) that the over arcing goal behind this event ultimately succeeded.  After reading Breezy's and Rhianon's fine accounts, I am satisfied that people, at least, came away with the spirit of the event.

 I should say that the Salon is in keeping with the RP optional atmosphere upon which NB operates, and so is ostensibly an OOC event, but is also at least partially an IC event as well. All of us who attend are in some degree or other IC, even those, like myself, who are really almost never IC. And, certaintly there is at least a small measure of RP with the guest speaker and their subject. Sometimes our speakers are even completely IC. For those in attendance, it is up to each of you to be as IC or OOC as you choose, as the needs of the featured subject require.

 I haven't talked with Viv, Jed and Sera about this yet, so, though I'm sure they would all agree, I, again,  speak only for myself here when I say that I'd like to aknowledge that Doc O took precious time out of a brutal work schedule to do this for us. We were lucky and glad to have him, and I thank him. And also, I wish to thank Book for the work she put into her partial presentation. It was facinating and I know I'm not alone in feeling that it would have made a great complete presentation on its own. That hard work on her part lent solid credibility to the RP and it was brilliant.

This was meant to be a fun thing for us all to enjoy as we celebrated the 2nd anniversary of the Aether Salon. Yes, it could have gone better. We certainly could have done more planning on the front end to help guide the event to the intended conclusion. Perhaps we might have announced this as an IC event, but that would have killed the surprise, methinks. And, as Breezy so rightly pointed out, the element of surprise worked perfectly, and everyone seemed to be having fun.  I don't think it was all that bad in the end, given the scheduling conflicts, and just the spontaneous nature of the event. I am really sorry if Book and Doc O came away not  feeling so good about it, though. You both did a great job and I really appreciate your work and help in trying to make the event something to remember. And I wish to thank everyone who came for being there as well.

 Also, I add my voice to Tenk's sentiments on how civil this discussion has been. It is refreshing. We have this discussion, to some degree or other, every year, and each year there is a whole new crop of citizens to add their voices to the subject of RP and its place in NB. I came in with the 2nd, or early 3rd generation of New Babbagers, and have been through this larger issue several times now. It has been known to be a hairy topic and one rife with hard feelings. It is nice to see people talking, rather than throwing blind, rageful tantrums at each other and devolving into name calling. It's nice to see a different level of discourse, especially considering there are some hard feelings.

  To sum up. I initially felt odd, but ultimately content with the event, But then I felt bad, after reading this topic, and felt that I, and we Salon team members, had let everyone down. And now I feel odd, but ultimately content with the event again, but am also concerned that anyone might have had a bad time.

Rowan Xenga's picture
Reply by Rowan Xenga | Mon, 18 October - 12:23 pm SLT

I try to treat New Babbage as an "always IC" location. Granted, I'm
new, and even managed to just miss the Zombie plague (and I'd have loved
to have been a part of that), so I haven't met a lot of you yet, much
less determined if the people I do already speak to are to be regarded with fear,
friendliness, or something else. Please treat my characters sometimes-evident naivete as what it is - unfamiliarity with the nuances of New Babbage that any newcomer would display. (I have thus far decided that Satu is nice, the magister is a bit aloof, and Ariana and Victor are friendly but rather busy. Oh - and Underby is gruff and decidedly creepy. Anyone else, I haven't interacted with enough or in the right capacity to form an opinion. And for my first week, I think that's a good start. ^^)

I have been a little
disappointed at the lack of ability to wander the streets and get
involved in random bits of rp, but it hasn't stopped me from trying. I
follow the radar, as it were, searching out the city for where groups of
people are. And in the last week, that succeeded once.

If you should feel I'm not reacting properly,  please nudge me,
either OOC or IC via actions or words. I catch on fast, usually, and
that will also give me a mental reminder that "Oh, so-and-so isn't to be
trusted!" or "Mr. So-and-so is likely to throw shoes at me because they
have a deep-seated hatred/fear of automata."

So, there. :P

Grendel Footman's picture
Reply by Grendel Footman | Mon, 18 October - 4:58 pm SLT

keep trying, sometimes RP just hits you in the streets, sometimes it doesn't, all just a matter of happening to walk into it sometimes

 

and anytime I'm on, go ahead and say 'Hi" I'm almost always IC unless there's a big OOC over my head

Zaida Gearbox's picture
Reply by Zaida Gearbox | Mon, 18 October - 12:35 pm SLT

*Offers Rowan a cookie and a Zaidapop*

Breezy Carver's picture
Reply by Breezy Carver | Mon, 18 October - 12:38 pm SLT

 Jasper thank YOU !!  

In The art of Good Street Role Play like that of any Good Theater

Folks it is Not Like Sports or Humor or even Politics  !!

One does not always receive instant Gratify  !

As some perfectionists ((True Artists mho)) , might go through the loops in their minds ..calling it painful

What you might be missing You Did Make History  !  This is now history and facts do & will always show that this audience was engaged , entertained  ....not reacting the best way to the Performance in the moment , true .. but non the less The Audiences of Babbage for the most Part .. Shall always be APPREATIVE of THE  STAR Character's Performance .. and others effort ..  isn't that what is most important in the end ???       (( please note mho !! ))

Rusty Bones's picture
Reply by Rusty Bones | Mon, 18 October - 1:19 pm SLT

:punches a fist in the air for Doc O: Yeah, man!

Seriously, gotta agree. It's hard to be a baddie when practically everyone sneers at ya like yer nothin but a schoolyard bully, whether yer the brainiac inventor, the shifty shady mind bender or the rough and scrapping street thug. Sure, some're gonna have their courage in a holster on their hip. But havin ta start pullin out the cheap tricks like chewin on taboo stuff just ta get a reaction only waters down a baddie more by makin us hunt for reaction instead a spendin our time plottin up real threats.

URCHINS! :points at Cyan and trails his finger across the others: That kid's got the right ideas! An if you guys want some trainin up ta use not just yer guts, but'cher brains too, you guys come ta me. I'll be takin up some a you fer some toughenin up. Make this city right scared a urchins! New Babbages' got more urchins than any other street thugs out there, ya guys can be a right scary menace if ya wanna be!

Bianca Namori's picture
Reply by Bianca Namori (not verified) | Mon, 18 October - 2:50 pm SLT

New Babbage is VERY mixed in the roleplay and as Ms. Macbain stated, giving a heads up can help to keep things in the same row...well...as in row as they can possibly be. ^^

Darlingmonster Ember's picture
Reply by Darlingmonster Ember | Mon, 18 October - 3:10 pm SLT

I believe there is no more challenging role for a community of RPers than a PC (player character) Villain. Various emotional and technical thresholds are crossed by the PC as Evil Bounder and all this is triply hard when asked to do spontaneous unplanned improv.

Kudos to Dr Obolensky and M Heinrichs for what they accomplished.  Regrets I was not there, as I love the Salons and New Babbage effort at RP.

Have you all ever considered a 'scene fixer', 'stage manager' or 'referee'?

I offer these guides and comments from my experience. ((Nothing given freely here is directed at any One in particular, I apologize in advance if my comments seem outrageous as someone who does not live in New Babbage but merely admires the tremendous quality of the sim, builds, characters and people behind it.))

My suggestions:

1. if you arrive in midst of ongoing RP (or return from CRASH or LAG monster and are confused about what you might contribute) you can not go wrong by adding genre comments ("You'll never get away with this!"   "Gasp!"  "Mark my words, Obolensky, this will not stand.")  When you catch up again...you can do more.  Even if you have no idea what Your Character ought to do...dramatic cliche is fun if you give it your own signature. Be respectful.

2. We'd all like to have the spotlight shine on us, but think for a moment about what you 'give' to a RP scene rather than what you 'do' as a Character. Are you fueling the moment or more worried about your own next spoken line? You may find you can keep a steady flow of fuel adding to the scene if you Validate another Character's dialog.  ("You tell him, Jimmy!"  "My lawd, that poison does nerve damage even if the antidote is administered quickly!!"  "Is she breathing?")

3. Yes, it clutters up the text box, but don't be afraid to ask short simple questions OOC ((double paren))...  ((I'm going to try picking a lock, anyone can help with that?))

4. Remember context and consequence trumps Character spotlight. IOW, my character may have a pistol hidden, but I cannot assume that the nearest lab will undo the Villains threat without consequence to my actions in this context. A bit of meta thinking is often required (Reflection if you will, what if I am hasty, she could die!!).  You should insist in governing your Character with context and consequence in mind.

5. Credit due: if the Villain will face a SIMfull of armed and competent Babbagers, then that Villain must have many many serious ways to Leverage consequence upon the Character and Community. You may not see it. You may not have been informed beforehand of what it is, but by all means believe it IS there.

I could go on a while, but should stop. I'm not sure how much text fits here.

A noteworthy question I might ask: while violence is often called the failure of diplomacy, you may also note that Violence is often the Failure of RP also.  Does the average Babbager have a 'fall down' animation?  You can Validate the Villain and fuel a scene and ease your own 'uncertainty about RPing' by being a Rash Victim.  A couple of folks lying on the ground might be enjoying the whole scene after having tested the Vile Villain's diabolic competence.

New Babbage is one of the most energetic and dedicated sims for RP. Don't let your own high standards cause you to lose confidence in the pursuit.

cheers!

MichaelD Mannonen's picture
Reply by MichaelD Mannonen | Mon, 18 October - 3:37 pm SLT

Excellent comments, DME. Very good suggestions indeed.

I am also intrigued about the idea of a "referee" of some sort; I am a DnD player, GM's (game masters) are not an unknown concept to me, but the idea of having one in these situations in SL is interesting, though to be honest i don't know how well it would work in this setting, but still i think at least considering the idea has merrit. 

Doctor Obolensky's picture
Reply by Doctor Obolensky | Mon, 18 October - 3:39 pm SLT

I do agree with virtually all of you.   As a whole Babbagers tend to be reasonable sorts.

My intent was to simply briefly use a bit of RP to establish why I was there, and then carry on the salon, hopefully provoking conversation on the topic by being the devil's advocate.  ("Heroines!   Worse than female reporters.   Discuss.")

Obviously, that failed.  I am aware of the IC/OOC muddle that is Babbage, and for the most part, I actually love it.  In situations such as this in the past, I've been able to work through it by simply ignoring everything but the folks who respond in an IC manner.

My issue with this particular episode, was that, whether it was my perception, or simply this particular audience at this particular time, I couldn't for the life of me find any of the replies worth playing off of.

Maybe it's RP snobbery, maybe it's just the fact that I've never really had that happen in Babbage before, but it definitely ruined my mood.

Sheryl Skytower's picture
Reply by Sheryl Skytower | Mon, 18 October - 4:02 pm SLT

*sneaks up on Dr. O.*

*considers giving major wedgie*

*notices huge death ray gun in holster*

*wanders off, munching on cookie deftly picked from Dr.'s pocket when he wasn't looking*

:)

 

maybe next time...

Tesla Tripsa's picture
Reply by Tesla Tripsa | Mon, 18 October - 4:00 pm SLT

Just finished reading the transcript, and I definitely feel bad for Doc O and Book.  I generally don't participate in RP, because I'm no good at improvising and never know what to say, though I can occasionally play along if I find myself in the middle of one.  I think in this instance, I would not have known what was expected, other than fear and the occasional *gasp*, and likely would have remained mostly quiet and observed, as I do with a lot of RP.  The snarky comments were pretty rude I think and pretty much killed the RP.  I do think many people were reacting to it as a stage performance, as Star said,  because they went expecting that they would be OOC, observing a presentation.  I think another issue may be that there are a number of new people in Babbage, or people that only come to Babbage for events, and therefore didn't know who Doc O was and didn't realize he is a credible threat.  I have seen a lot of new folks complaining that when they try and RP they are mostly ignored.  When you say something in RP that doesn't make any sense in the context, that is likely to happen.  How many have read the History of Babbage notecard?  Or read some of the wiki thingy?  Granted, it's a lot of material, and no one can know everything that goes on in Babbage, but I've seen several occasions where folks have tried to launch themselves into RPs but clearly have no clue who any of the characters are and end up reacting to them in a way that doesn't make any sense, and they are therefore largely ignored.  On the other hand, does anyone say in IM to them "Psst, this guy's a big bad dude, not to be trifled with" so they can adjust accordingly.  I realize that it kills the moment, and there are often a lot of IMs flying back and forth between players,  but the other option is that they continue to blunder through the RP.  There are folks that REALLY want to RP, and to them I say do a bit of homework, and if you have no idea what's going on, take a back seat at first at least to assess the situation before diving in.  And to the oldies, maybe the occasional nudge to those new folk who really are honestly trying?

 

Tesla Tripsa's picture
Reply by Tesla Tripsa | Mon, 18 October - 4:06 pm SLT

And that long winded comment took far too long to post, as I both made dinner and ate it, while typing a bit here and there in between.  DME's comment was far better worded and her points were a lot clearer and easy to read.  What she said.

Bookworm Hienrichs's picture
Reply by Bookworm Hienrichs | Mon, 18 October - 5:32 pm SLT

All right, here comes the *loooong* response. Settle in, folks—get some tea, or other favorite beverage. All set? Good. *grin*

First off, I just wanted to make it clear that I’m not angry. There’s some disappointment, yes, but not anger. I know we sprang it on you with no warning, but we did want it to be a surprise—any kind of warning would have ruined the surprise. This was the second anniversary of the Aether Salon, and I know Viv wanted to make it a memorable one. It snowballed from there. *grin*

As for OOC vs. IC Salon—well, yes, the Salon usually is OOC. Again, we wanted to do something memorable. And I would think that seeing Dr. Obolensky fly in in his usual melodramatic way and zap me—with *no* protests from me—would be a good clue that something unusual is going on. I was hoping more people would catch on and get into the spirit of it—give the sort of reactions Dr. Obolensky and Miss Ember outlined, as those would have helped to feed the RP.

I definitely feel more disappointment for Dr. Obolensky’s sake than myself. I really would like to see him go on a good villain-speech tear again soon. I don’t know—maybe some of you think it’s hopelessly melodramatic or something, but I love it, and I love feeding it. My plan was this:

Bookworm Hienrichs suddenly leaps up and snatches the ElectroCane from Dr. Obolensky.
Bookworm Hienrichs: *I* -- have had *enough* -- of being *electrocuted*!
Bookworm Hienrichs punctuates each phrase with a slam of the cane against the floor, creating sparks and a sizzling noise. Then she casts aside the now-ruined cane.
Bookworm Hienrichs advances one step toward Dr. Obolensky, her eyes flashing.
Bookworm Hienrichs: Honestly! This is the *third* time this year!
Bookworm Hienrichs: Are you villains *trying* to permanently damage my nerves?

Just *think* what could have followed if he’d stayed around to see all of that!

(And I can just envision next time—if there is a next time, and I really, really hope there is—Dr. Obolensky knocks me out some other way, then says later, “Well, you *said* you didn’t want to be electrocuted anymore!” *grin*)

But I digress.

Would you folks have preferred a warning, and less surprise? I’m interested to know. Also, do you think it might have helped if I’d made an OOC comment or two during it, to try to steer people more into it? Unfortunately, I didn’t think about that until afterwards.

As the Clockwinder said, Babbage is, in a sense cliquey, and always has been. It can’t really be helped, because of so much variety in our residents—different interests, different time zones, etc. I don’t think anyone here sets out to deliberately exclude others—we just find the group we’re most comfortable with, and tend to stay with that group. Inertia sets in. I think we all need to be aware of that, and try to find ways to combat it, so we can keep our RPing fresh.

Though, on the flip side, there can be RP reasons for not interacting with other groups. I’ve had very little to do with Mr. Underby and the stories surrounding him, for the simple reason that we don’t frequent the same places or move in the same social circles. I, as my character, would *never* go to the Bucket of Blood—at least, not without a very good reason. It is, after all, a bar, and I have to avoid the drinking temptation. It’s also in what seems to be a rather unsavory part of town, where I’m just not going to want to go unless I have to. (Though if anyone wants to help create a situation where I have to, I open for discussions. *grin*) But I am definitely enjoying reading about him and his wife in their blog posts, and I hope that continues.

I would agree that people also need to work on being able to keep IC separate from OOC. Does anyone really think the typist behind Mr. Steamweaver truly believes women to have delicate minds, or are capable of carrying only one small book at a time? I certainly didn’t, and I–the typist—laughed my head off at that.

The Steamweaver interview offers another illustration, I think—about thinking about IC *consequences* of your actions and comments. When he impugned my intelligence, I could have reacted angrily—that would have been in character for me. But what would have happened? Mr. Steamweaver would have stopped the interview, and I would have never gotten the information I needed. I know how easy it is, in this environment of no true consequences (except, perhaps, being banned), to say or do the first thing that pops into your head, and it may even be in character. But just stop and think about what the consequences would be if the events were happening in real life.

In the case of the Salon, look at it this way. You wanted to lip off to Dr. Obolensky, or throw tomatoes at him? Remember this—he still had his ElectroCane. And he was standing right over me. All he would have had to do was shock me to kingdom come, and I wouldn’t have gotten up ever again. That right there could have been incentive enough to keep you quiet, if you’d thought about it. Unless, of course, you *wanted* me to be shocked to kingdom come. *grin*

Yes, yes, I know we as *typists* know that he wouldn’t have killed me—or, at least, it was an extremely remote possibility. But we as *characters* don’t know that. Do please keep that in mind.

Fear factor—well, I think I already said what I wanted to say about that in the original post.

RP optional—whee, let’s talk about that again! *grin* Yes, RP is optional here. That means one is perfectly free not to participate in RPing, and those who do RP should respect that. But, *just as much,* that means that one is perfectly free *to* RP, and those who don’t RP should respect *that.* If you’re caught in an RP situation you don’t want to do, is it really so difficult to back off a bit and say, “Sorry, I don’t want to participate in this?” Then you and they can work out amicably what to do from there.

OK, there’s probably a lot more I could say, but considering I’ve already worked on this for an hour and 45 minutes, off and on, it’s *really* time for me to stop. Sorry for being so long-winded.

Edward Pearse's picture
Reply by Edward Pearse | Tue, 19 October - 6:09 am SLT

Actually I think the fear factor is probably the biggest telling point. Sure you can RP it, but in the end we all KNOW there is nothing that can be done to our AVs without our consent. Push is turned off on many parcels and even then some HUDs have anti-push options.

Conversely there's a reason villains don't live in the local pub or just off the head at the end of the pier: if they were really that bad people would have driven them out. A torch weilding mob wouldn't burn down the observatory and then say "welcome back".

It's a balancing act. Sometimes it works well, other times you fall into the net and have to start again.

Bookworm Hienrichs's picture
Reply by Bookworm Hienrichs | Tue, 19 October - 6:14 am SLT

Heh.  I was beginning to think I'd stunned you all into silence with my eloquence.

 

Or bored you all to death.

 

Yeah...probably the latter. *wry grin*

Doctor Obolensky's picture
Reply by Doctor Obolensky | Tue, 19 October - 2:22 pm SLT

Well, that's why Doc doesn't live in town, but out in the observatory.    On the other hand, if somebody *wants* to burn down the observatory, I'm open to that as well, as long as they want to pay for the land. :)

 

Grendel Footman's picture
Reply by Grendel Footman | Tue, 19 October - 3:48 pm SLT

forget push, I have DAMAGE turned on in my parcel!

Mr Underby's picture
Reply by Mr Underby | Tue, 19 October - 6:10 pm SLT

Mine too.

Rowan Xenga's picture
Reply by Rowan Xenga | Tue, 19 October - 10:11 pm SLT

In regards to fear -

Just yesterday I had an experience of fear that was fun to play out. The world was at midnight at the time this happened, and the tunnel beside Bucket of Blood was pitch dark. I couldn't even see Maggie Lynwood 2m ahead of me. I knew for a fact that Rusty was in that tunnel, because his name was hovering there and he was on my radar. I had no idea how he might react to my walking further in to find him (since I was investigating the strange noises I was hearing - which were in fact Rusty sniggering at me and Maggie) and feared the worst. It was great fun to play because, since I knew I'd accept anything he might have done, I was honestly frightened myself, making it very easy.

Darlingmonster Ember's picture
Reply by Darlingmonster Ember | Tue, 19 October - 8:02 am SLT

There is another complication to RP in a spontaneous Group Setting that I shall mention and that is Character Niche in terms of Validation. Examples I would use (inspired by the unedited transcript since I was not there) might be these:

1. the Baron: his niche includes that he is Unflappable. People have tried to kill him hundreds of times. Just because he seems Bored or Unimpressed with Dr Obolensky is not the Truth. His mind races as he calculates the situation. He does not want a single Babbager hurt in the conflict. He does not activate sparky devices as he plans. He talks...and draws out the Villain.

You would not emulate the Baron and be Unflappable as that is His Schtick, His Niche. But you can Validate his niche by asking for 'orders' or even noting that your Character 'watches him for a sign to act' or that your Character 'wonders at how he is SO calm'.

2. Mr Smith: his niche includes that is a Gent Mysterious. Folks find him erudite and a bit hesitant to share his background. If he goes pale at the dangerous threat to M Heinrichs, is it that he has traffic with Oblensky in the past? Is he in Babbage because he is ill in anxious situations? Does he secretly find M Heinrichs the most perfect woman in Babbage and his heart sags at the peril she is in?

Suddenly Dr O's arrival opens a tangent of possibilities about one of your neighbors because of RP reactions to the scene. You might 'give' to the scene a lot by noticing another Character's reactions. Certainly it is not the main thrust of the scene, but it spreads the 'what-to-do' around.

Folks may not pick up on small gestures, but it is worth while to toss them out anyhow. The flurry of posts will still enhance the overall scene and be less chaotic to the main thrust.

Cheers!

Bookworm Hienrichs's picture
Reply by Bookworm Hienrichs | Mon, 18 October - 5:35 pm SLT

Oh--one last thing.  I do want to say thank you to Viv, Sera, Jed, Jasper, and Dr. Obolensky.  I still think it was a good idea, I enjoyed working on it, and I look forward to my full Salon appearance next year. *smile*

Yang Moreau's picture
Reply by Yang Moreau | Tue, 19 October - 8:31 am SLT

To be honest, I had no idea what the Heroine's thing going on was. I guess I missed any kind of invite or slurl in the group chat and the way it was being talked about, I thought it was some kind of female characters only club since no one seemed to be able to tell me at the time. I guess things were just too busy and my repeated questions were lost, so I went off to do other things and wound up missing the whole bit of fun.

That said and over with. lol My character's no hero, but he does try to find something when he feels someone he cares for in any way threatened. Even if it's climbing a pillar to try and find a good vantage point to throw a rock from. But if he feels someone could get hurt by his actions, Yang does take a wait and see approach. I remember tagging along with the militia on their raid of Dr. Obolensky's and being a bit confused about where to even stand where he wouldn't be in the way, but I still found ways to participate. lol Such as Yang skirting around the others to approach and check on Miss Heinrichs when she collapsed from another shock. XD Had no idea it was habit forming for her. lol So to speak. But he let the others who knew what they were doing take over and tried to make sure she was okay while they were rushing around her.

Marion Questi's picture
Reply by Marion Questi | Tue, 19 October - 1:11 pm SLT

I have been hesitant to add anything to this thread, but Miss Hienrichs' indignation and disappointment compel me to try to explain my actions, or lack of them, during the Salon.

I don't do Role Play. I don't really understand it. I am slightly uncomfortable with it. So, I just sat there waiting for it end. I came to the Salon for the usually excellent lectures and discussions, and was a bit dismayed to find that I, and everyone else, had been set up.

I considered participating:  offering smelling salts to Miss Hienrichs; pulling my revolver and shooting the Doctor (or as I recall having been instructed...shooting in his general direction); observing loudly that he lacked the courage to attack any of the men present, etc.  But I had no idea what to do afterwards and, besides, I could not know how much of this had been planned beforehand and I suspected that whatever I did would play havoc with the script.

So, I sat there feeling foolish and waited for it to end.

I understand that this is my own failing. I apologize for my lack of spontaneity, creativity and wit. RP just isn’t for everyone.

Doctor Obolensky's picture
Reply by Doctor Obolensky | Tue, 19 October - 1:35 pm SLT

Marion,

    Don't feel at all bad or foolish.   As has been pointed out, your reaction is perfectly suitable.   When I RP in a public place, I don't ever expect everyone to play along.

    I had hoped for just a brief bit of RP before getting back to the topic.   As has been mentioned to me (repeatedly) I really should have had a rube in the audience, to step in if no one else did.   If I had more time to prepare, I probably would have.   Unfortunately, almost the entirety of my waking hours last week were spent dealing with RL work issues.

    We didn't intend to "set you up",  just to provide a brief bit of entertainment as we swapped speakers.

    I do apologize if you felt imposed on.   Really, there was absolutely nothing wrong with doing nothing. :)

 

 

Poopdeck Halfpint's picture
Reply by Poopdeck Halfpint | Wed, 9 November - 6:08 am SLT

If you ever see young Poopdeck around New Babbge, please know that he is always IC.

And he is always ready for an adventure.

Can usually be found in and around the Port or the pier in the Vernian.

Maddox Sinclaire's picture
Reply by Maddox Sinclaire | Wed, 9 November - 9:51 am SLT

Annnnnd, here's my two cents. Or four. ^^ However many.

I'm always IC unless you see brackets. But, by the same token, as Bookworm so eloquently stated, some characters I want to rp with IC aren't in the same circles as Maddox and therefore I either have to find them in the street (and choose between IC reaction and OOC Im'ing.) or if they're on my friend list, I usually just IM them, tell them I have an rp idea and see if they have the time to help me play it out.

Perfect example -- The Metier incident. The first one. I wrote in one of Maddie's blogs about her home and something about the way she "used" to be before Babbage... and that sparked us to have a whole new villain and a whole new threat to the city. Mainly because we came up with the idea and then the characters' reactions are what made people decide to jump up and help/hinder. Now I can admit, there wasn't really anyone working with Metier that wasn't offscreen... but still. Bookworm shot him, he shot Arnold, he tried to kill Maddox, he almost got knifed by Underby, Jed and the Melniks were on the lookout for him...  There were lots of people involved, whether directly or indirectly. I think it's because Metier's typist just wandered around town causing havoc and seeking people out to terrify. (That and the character's grade-A insane. Dead or alive. XD) When I brought up the idea of Maddie's past coming back to haunt her --corporeally, at first -- the group I brought it up to thought it would be fun, and we played it from there. It did snowball (even into a wedding for Maddox and Helio, which wasn't planned but was really fun to RP. ;-} ) and it was great. After it was over, the town had its next big thing and the characters got a chance to breathe. Now, I'm not saying that's how all town Rp's should start, but I think the mystery of not knowing just what the "Villain" is capable of helped, just a tad.

I do agree that villains like Mr U and Doc O should be feared. But not the typists. On the other side of the coin, it's very easy to be lax about morals. It's super hard to be as evil as these two fellows are touted to be. (Though, in Mr U's defense, shooting Bianca was pretty hardcore evil ^_~)

And I love spontaneous RP as much as the next person. But with RP-optional sims, it seems that those who don't RP tend to not know what will kill an RP quickly. They tend to be OOC when everyone else in IC and that's where the confusion with muns comes in. If you're IC and you say something that someone OOC doesn't like, they WILL assume you're saying it to them as you and not your character. It's just how things seem to run. It's annoying, but that's how it is. I always try to soften whatever it is with a bracketed comment afterward. It's just a simple case of misunderstanding. However, at the same time, OOC people should ask if what the character said was aimed at them and let there be some explanations occur, IMHO. Usually, I find spontaneous RP works if you're with a group or a friend that you know somewhat well and you all talk about it in IMs and agree to try out something and see where it goes. (Like with Maddox's current white hair problem. lol. That was totally random and based off some boxed hair that Stormy showed me where to buy it. I had an idea to use the hair because of all the crazy colors that came in the box. And the rp was fun, if short.)

Miss Book, perhaps a mass IM to those going saying something like, (Might be some light rp for fun, please join us in the fun IC) could have worked. I know it ruins the surprise to the typist, but forewarning might have let the OOC people know not to snark it up so much and the IC people to switch to IC mode. *Please don't be angry with me! {hides} This is just my opinion.*

In all the years that I've been Rping, whether it be in SL or just my normal AIM text worlds, spontenaity is a great thing. There's plenty of awesome RPs I've been in that have started from *you get zapped by a squirrel* type randomness. I've learned that Rp plans should be fluid. Because, as stated, sometimes someone wants to join the RP but can't read the mind of the person who started it and they do something that messes up the outline that the person had in mind for it.... Trust me, there's been lots of times that's happened in my RP past. With my storylines and me doing it for others accidentally. IMHO, just roll with it. Learn to set storylines in wet sand and hope that they harden instead of being swept away for new ideas. I think it all boils down to IC attitude. If your character can make the best of any situation, (Or even of they can't) it should be all good, no matter how bad things get. Everyone is different. And by the same token, every character is different. If your character is no different from you, then we've got a Mary Sue/Mark Joe on our hands. And I can't say that I can deal with those very well (being a fanfiction writer, I've seen plenty of bad ones.)

But, ultimately, what RP becomes is up to you as a player. If you don't feel like begging off when an RP starts around you... Then that's you. I just hope you aren't around me when it happens. Because RP just is. And I'm going to hush now and let you all pelt me with rocks. XD

Henri Metier's picture
Reply by Henri Metier | Wed, 9 November - 10:29 am SLT

What do you mean I didn't have any help?  My friends were there the whole time!  <Chuckles>

In all honesty it ran pretty smoothly because I had set up at least a few of those encounters in advance, there was a lot less wandering about than you suggest, but I left most the conclusion to those who got involved. 

What I'm up to this time, well that's another story now isn't it? <Laughter>

Mr Tenk's picture
Reply by Mr Tenk | Wed, 9 November - 10:44 am SLT

Interesting that this year old thread had resurfaced. Right now we're in rp "high" mode, and the flip side of this is showing its face - rp burnout. two cautionary examples i think need to be mentioned from the general feedback that has been filtering back to me lately -- 

Guy number one not to be: rp stalker. this is someone that is hanging out waiting for particular people to get online or on the ground so they can rp all over them. this gets annoying for the locals, and fast, and sends people up to the platforms or on walkabouts.

Guy number two not to be: inappropriate camper. I recently overheard someone saying  "you can't be the corpse at every funeral or the bride as every wedding." Mr. Camper is someone that can't stand not being in on the action, no matter how implausible it might be for character x to be hanging out in place y. i don't think any adult characters would go sneaking into the urchin hideout when there's a gang of green dots there. it ruins the suspension of disbelief and can force the people trying to do a quick scene into very awkward corners. Stop it. Please.

Stargirl Macbain's picture
Reply by Stargirl Macbain | Wed, 9 November - 10:57 am SLT

I was genuinely surprised to see this thread hit my inbox today. Over a year old, this is! And I think the issue which caused it (the expectation of interactive RP at what is almost always an OOC event) has long since been hammered into the dust.

 

Loki Eliot's picture
Reply by Loki Eliot | Wed, 9 November - 11:13 am SLT

This is the funniest thread on the forum, 

The Reporter's picture
Reply by The Reporter | Wed, 9 November - 11:16 am SLT

Like a necropheliac who's given up beastiality...I think we've tired of flogging this dead horse.

Avariel Falcon's picture
Reply by Avariel Falcon | Wed, 9 November - 11:32 am SLT

The necromancers are at work I see.

And yes, the bees were scary, and still are.

Breezy Carver's picture
Reply by Breezy Carver | Wed, 9 November - 7:49 pm SLT

I  think it is great This Post was  raised .

Second Life is the game .. I think some need to be reminded of this once in a while .

Cause to be honest, New Babbage has always had a wonderful reputation for out of the box Interactive  Street * Friendly*  (for those that wish to take part)  Role Play, an art form in it's self by the way  .

For her Streets  the cobbles are all almost "a play ground it its self "for all willing to respect ALL, not just a select few ..  Some people have felt slighted by others of the late ..  ((no Loki Not You !))  believe it or not .

Just because one uses and writes longest drawn out  blog, does not warrant  them the right to look down and ignore others .. Others who perhaps help to build and are also part of the Community .

 

 

Maddox Sinclaire's picture
Reply by Maddox Sinclaire | Wed, 9 November - 9:47 pm SLT

Told ya you'd pelt me with stones,lol. And in my defense, didn't know how old the thread was before I posted. XD

Bookworm Hienrichs's picture
Reply by Bookworm Hienrichs | Thu, 10 November - 6:12 am SLT

Bookworm sings, "This is the blog that never ends/ It just goes on and on, my friends..." *grin*

I think it happened because, when one clicks on "View all blog posts," there's a listing at the side of "Most Popular Blog Posts," and this is one of them.

But if nothing else, at least we got something from Poopdeck! *waves* How ya doin', man? Haven't heard from you in a dog's age!

Loki Eliot's picture
Reply by Loki Eliot | Tue, 16 October - 11:45 am SLT

Blah blah blah, roleplaying, blah blah, just not cricket , blah blah, rules of interaction, blah blah blah, not like it once was , la blah, the mayor!!

Stargirl Macbain's picture
Reply by Stargirl Macbain | Tue, 16 October - 11:50 am SLT

Loki, don't make me call Odin.

Honesty, why can't you be more like your brother, Thor? Hmm?

Avariel Falcon's picture
Reply by Avariel Falcon | Tue, 16 October - 12:05 pm SLT

Tricksy Loki and his thread necromancy! Naughty!

^_^

Stargirl Macbain's picture
Reply by Stargirl Macbain | Tue, 16 October - 12:23 pm SLT

It starts with necromancy, and it ends with him tricking giants into doing free work. A slippery slide, I tell you!

Tesla Tripsa's picture
Reply by Tesla Tripsa | Tue, 16 October - 2:51 pm SLT

Noooo!  It's baaaack!  Someone forgot rule number two:  The Double Tap.

Garnet Psaltery's picture
Reply by Garnet Psaltery | Tue, 16 October - 2:54 pm SLT

You made me read all that and wonder why it was suddenly November.  Naughty boy!